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The Breakthrough Company by Keith McFarland
A New York Times bestseller, The Breakthrough Company, published by Crown/Random House, is available at Amazon.com.
Recent Entries
Inc.com Featured Blogs
April 15, 2008
Vista Still Sucks
Posted by Keith McFarland at 1:36 PM
It has been 62 days since I first blogged about my travails with my new Dell laptop with Microsoft Vista. Think I went quiet because Service Pack 2.5678896040230456 solved all my problems? Think again. My machine has continued to hiccup, burp, and fart over the past two months—so much so that I had an IT professional strip off Vista and rebuild it using Windows XP. Keeping my fingers crossed.
The whole thing has probably cost me a thousand dollars extra (not counting the cost of the laptop and the software), and at least a hundred hours of lost productivity. After my last post, suggesting that Steve Ballmer should worry more about building products that work than about buying Yahoo—he has redoubled his efforts to buy Yahoo.
If my GE refrigerator shut down several times a day, causing melted ice cream to drip from the door and food to spoil, you can bet that I'd buy another brand next time around. If several times a day my Maytag washer burped dirty water all over my floor and flooded my downstairs, I'd be done with Maytag. But in the world of computing, I'm kind of stuck, aren't I? I can go to Apple (too late now—I just bought Dell hardware), or I can just spend my time wiping up the melted ice cream and dirty water that Microsoft so reliably produces.
When the Justice Department was going after Microsoft a few years back, I was on Microsoft's side. It seemed to me then like a case of government out of control. Microsoft's fancy lawyers and slick PR hacks effectively made the point that they were at risk from competition from the likes of Google—so the government should lay off. But now I think that the Europeans have it right—Microsoft is a de facto monopoly. There are simply not enough choices out there when it comes to day-to-day computing. Microsoft has the power to force Vista onto all of the major platforms, forcing us to move to it, and forcing us to deal with its shortcomings until they get around to fixing it.
Let's be honest, there is nothing in Vista's pretty (and confusing) interface changes that we need. Certainly nothing worth $400. So let's start calling Microsoft what it is: A Monopoly. And I can't believe I am saying this, but let's follow Europe's lead and make it painful for Microsoft to continue its uncompetitive practices.
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As much as I respect most of your insulting I believe you have picked a battle that is not only below you but inaccurate. Your personal issues with Vista and the other 5% of people who have had legit issues, mostly related to hardware and drivers, are not indicative of a product that needs to be replaced. Mac has the same luxury as gaming consoles, they get to write software for specific hardware. As a consumer you get the advantage of having few issues with their OS as long as you stick to their hardware, you also pay a premium for this. In the PC world you have the ability to get any hardware that you choose, allowing you ultimate flexibility which inherently causes problems. Build a PC yourself, with good hardware, good drivers and good software and Vista will work flawlessly.
If you want to direct your anger anywhere it should be at Dell for not using consistent hardware in their machines, and not testing the hardware with the OS they are installing. Dell uses the least expensive parts they can in order to sell you computers cheap.
Indeed - it still does.
My devoted IT admin was in FL the day I had had enoughof Vista. He talked me thru the departitioning (they make it very, very difficult to remove - no "uninstall" button for the beast)
I warmly refer to it as the "deVistation" and highly recommend that any IT guy/gal looking to start their own company - where millions of customers are lined up waiting to buy his IT services, name the company "deVistation.com".
Vista = proof positive that MSFT is officially an Ad Agency:)
"The whole thing has probably cost me a thousand dollars extra (not counting the cost of the laptop and the software), and at least a hundred hours of lost productivity."
So now for the obligitory "here's my own take" comment:
It seems strange you've gone to such lengths with such poor results, when I installed it on a 4 year old machine without a hitch.
Since the common denominator between our machines is the OS, and mine works fine while yours doesn't, I'd put the blame on hardware.
And with regards to the interface, change that "we" to an "I", because there's plenty of UI changes I welcome. Breadcrum explorer, file copy/replace dialogue, control panel revamp, rename file without extension, new start menu, window preview alt tab, new wireless center, new sharing center, etc. These are all things I love about the UI. You may not, that's your own opinion so don't speak for all of us by saying "we".
hmmm...refridgerator has no software to run it. It is ran purely by sensors which are solid state and require no code to do their job. The compressor is a multiwind AC induction device that only requires AC to form the magnetic fields to generate rotation. No software to run that. Refridgerant is ran through a series of tubes to a reservoir that is all controlled by the compressor. No software to run that.
Your washing machine I could describe much along the same way.
Neither are computers, neither has software to run them.
To me, it is blatantly obvious you are yet another one of those pissy moany SOBs who have nothing better to do than whine about MS's latest release, how the previous was so much better and waaaaaaaaaaa.
Same bitching and moaning was said by people like you for every OS MS has released since the 3.1 days. I predict that someone like you, if not yourself, will bitch and moan about the next OS released from MS and most likely say that Vista is a much better OS than the newest one just release and we don't need all this and waaaa waaaa.
I call people like yourself those that Cannot Understand New Technology. There is an acronym in there for purely entertainment purposes only.
And you lost so much money and time to this? I would say that you exagerated your pain much like those that I have to support exagerate their problems. "My computer doesn't work." "Maybe it would work better if you turned it on".
'Nuff said. RTFM buddy.
These people must be Microsoft PR employees. Most of us, specifically the technical, hate Vista. Which is why Dell now offers XP again due to an overwhelming public outcry. This is also why MS is planning an early release of its next OS.
I think Mike is missing the whole point. Keith expresses his dislike for Vista because he's actually used the OS for a number of months and had more problems with it then a normal user should.
I call people like Mike "I love to hate what I don't understand." Or "Cannot read or understand full sentences or thoughts."
I'm sure as Keith would tell you, he's referring to a brand of product and how it's unlikely he will buy a specific brand over and over again if it doesn't work. Taking Keith's words out of context and giving them new meaning is inconsiderate and stupid.
You may want to shut that swear box you seem to have opened as well.
I think Mike needs to replace his hardware and software (brain) with one's that will allow Mike to "run" or "operate" properly.
@Krohleder:
Yes, yes, well done. Everyone who likes Vista must work for MSFT. Frankly, that's BS, you know it and I know it. It's called a straw man logical fallacy, and while you think you are clever, you are not.
The fact is that I am also a technical person, and have hated Microsoft as a company for most of my life, but Vista really is fine. It's not "totally amazing", but it works fine on my 1 year old laptop that came with Vista. Had the system come with XP, that would be fine too.
Vista works well, and almost all of the problems with it are a result of hardware vendors not writing correct drivers, or bloatware like Norton really screwing up the system. A clean install on supported hardware works just as well as any other Windows install, which is just fine.
Everyone said the same thing about XP, and the ONLY difference between the XP and Vista launches is that now anyone can post messages online complaining about it. The Internet didn't have nearly as many people on it 8 years ago when XP was launched. What you are hearing about Vista comes from the echo chamber, and unless you PERSONALLY have a story to tell where it messed up, keep it to yourself.
I have to agree with Keith. Vista is miserable. I'm an IT professional and have been happily using XP Pro for quite some time. One of my backup Windows machines croaked, so I bought a cheap HP machine to keep around for when I need a second Windows box available. It came with Vista.
First, I absolutely hate the new version of Windows Explorer. It's a pain to use and I've looked in vain for a way to use XP-style explorer. I immediately turned off all the user protection features, since they had me cussing at the thing from the get-go. Maybe your average Joe User needs to be protected, but folks who are technically competent will find these features do nothing more than get in the way.
The biggest problem I have with Vista is that the damn thing blue screens at least once a week (I leave all my computers running 24x7). This is with nothing more complicated than a browser session running. The performance is horrible. Granted, the machine only has 1G of memory, but geez, it's ridiculous to have a machine behave this way with a gig of memory in it.
I also dislike Vista for some of the same reasons I dislike Macs. I don't want the interface to be intrusive or overly "user-friendly" since that just gets in the way of actually getting anything done. Keep it simple and out of my way. It would be great to have one place where we could turn off all the "do you really mean to delete/change extensions/disable [insert item here]" prompting system-wide.
Additionally, a friend just purchased a new high-end system that came loaded with Vista. Hers crashes every couple of weeks and she has constant issues using apps like iTunes and non Microsoft mail products. She's not a power user and doesn't leave much running on her box. A friend of ours who works for Microsoft admitted that MS probably has issues with some non-MS products on purpose. I can't speak to how true that might be, but if it is, it's very uncool.
In summary, I'll be loading XP on that beast as soon as I get the chance. Don't get me wrong, I like Microsoft products quite a lot. I also like open source and run Linux on all of my servers. XP has been a very good desktop environment for me and I definitely use my machines for everything from photo editing to video-watching to software development to data crunching to... well, you get the picture. I have no problem running multiples of all of the above at the same time on my XP box. It is a more powerful, home-built machine, so the hardware issues mentioned by Brian could be the crux of the problem with the HP box. However, other pre-loaded hardware from multiple vendors did not have the same kind of problems with XP (and I've used plenty of such equipment in the various offices at my consulting gigs) so there are clearly a few problems with Vista.
Here's hoping Microsoft gets it right next time.
Yes, Vista is not that user friendly!!! This should not be a shock to anyone, these problems came out right away. Hell, Microsoft even knows the screwed up, they are already working on 7.0 and can't wait to get it out on the market.
Ryan Temple | Owner & Director of Operations | PCSurveillance.net
Tel: (330) 637-0499
[URL="http://www.pcsurveillance.net"]Company Website[/URL] | [URL="http://store.pcsurveillance.net/?Click=1507"]Online Store/Catalog[/URL] | [URL="http://blog.pcsurveillance.net"]Surveillance Blog[/URL]
Yes, Vista is not that user friendly!!! This should not be a shock to anyone, these problems came out right away. Hell, Microsoft even knows the screwed up, they are already working on 7.0 and can't wait to get it out on the market.
Ryan Temple | Owner & Director of Operations | PCSurveillance.net
Tel: (330) 637-0499
[URL="http://www.pcsurveillance.net"]Company Website[/URL] | [URL="http://store.pcsurveillance.net/?Click=1507"]Online Store/Catalog[/URL] | [URL="http://blog.pcsurveillance.net"]Surveillance Blog[/URL]
Vista downgrade from Acer? I heard that Acer was giving their customers to down-grade to XP for free. Anyone know any thing about it?
You say you can either go with a Mac or Microsoft's OS..... Well, another solution is to not be so lazy, install soem kind of linux distribution, give it a try and be happy for rest of your life. There is no farts or hiccups. For sure.
ive only used Vista a few times, I wasn't really impressed with it. My Dad brought a laptop with Vista on it, its driving him insane. He constantly has to put it in the shop. I kind of like his suffering because he brought a Vista laptop instead of a Macbook despite my warning him of all the problems he was going to have with it.
I've been running Vista since the RC1 beta(No,I'm not a MS employee)and have had no problems with the new OS.
I primarily use my machine for gaming,family video editing and all the usual internet activity and I've never had a real problem. Could it be because I build my own rigs with really high specs?
Some of the problems with Vista can be traced to the crappy laptops/desktops that they are sold on. Just because it's Vista capable does not mean it's Vista do-able.
"I'm kind of stuck, aren't I? I can go to Apple (too late now—I just bought Dell hardware)"
The obvious alternative for Windows would be Linux, not Apple because indeed it is linked to their hardware. Dell offers new PC's with Ubuntu Linux (they probably understand XP is at the end of its life-cycle while they don't want to bet all their cards on Vista). But there is no restriction whatsoever to install Ubuntu Linux on an existing computer, it's free and apparently it performs quite well on Dell hardware.
wow.... are you people that are defending vista, serious? i have had nothing but horror stories.... the clients that i advised AGAINST getting vista this early, have wasted enormous amounts of money, and gone back to xp (some have actually blown microsoft off all together in favor of nix/osx). i have yet to hear a single "vista is great" story outside of the anonymity of the internet. out of the 19 fairly large clients i have... NONE have remained with vista for longer than a month. NONE have continued to use it. and now, almost ALL are seeking alternative operating systems.
OMG more vista bashing i bought a new pc from dell and have vista, it runs flawlesly i like the new ui which is really a great step up from vista and its the most efficent system i have ever run i remember when XP came out and every man and his dog bashed that aswell now it seems that xp is the best thing since sliced bread dont be a stick in the mud
My flatmate's PowerBook just developed a fatal hardware fault. I had those with several of my Apple devices, and I've watched my friends and family wrestle with dead or dying Apple hardware -- sometimes getting acknowledgement of the fault and help from the company, sometimes not.
Yes, I'm sick of windows turning white and not responding in Vista -- they come back, but it costs time. But I won't delude myself back into the Mac zealotry of my former days. These are all just machines, and they're all fallible. This is part of the true cost that comes with computing as it currently exists.
I'm not sure why so many people seem to think there's anything wrong with Vista. As soon as it was RTM, I installed it on a 1 year old laptop with 512 MB of ram, and it loaded fine. With a bit of tweaking ran as fast as XP. I've also installed it on a 3 year old desktop, with less than a gig of ram with no issues whatsoever. I got a dell laptop a year ago, dual core w/ 2gigs of ram. On this system, XP doesn't run nearly as fast as Vista, and is much harder to set up. Vista also runs faster than Fedora, Ubuntu, and OpenSuse. Maybe my experiences are unique, but I doubt it. Like someone else said earlier, get good hardware, and a fresh install, and Vista runs good. Never, NEVER, take a pre-installed operating system from a manufacturer. They are always loaded with crap no one needs, and run much slower than a clean install. I have run every version of windows since 3.1, and on a new system, I would pick Vista over any of them. If you have a older, or lower memory system, run XP. By the way, no I don't work for Microsoft.
Run Unix. Some kind of *nix anyway. Mac OS is most of the way there. The interface is clean, program compatibility can be a problem, but overcome often with a bit of tenacity.
I would advise Keith its more of a hardware issue than Vista specifically. Dell are renown for being poor computers. If Keith is serious about computing he really should get decent equipment. The number of clients I've seen losing thousands of dollars as the result of Dell hardware is painful, particularly when you realise its all to save a few dollars up front.
I wouldn't run Unix on a Dell either BTW. It will be interesting if XP reflects problems experienced in Vista. I've found Asus, Fujitsu, HP (and Compaq) and Lenovo notebooks to be the most reliable, not necessarily in that order. Apple rates up there too.
The author seems to believe that his experience with Vista sucks, and that therefore Microsoft is a monopoly. Is he a legal genius?
Vista doesnt sucks but it is certainly not the best OS.
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What "new version of explorer"? Oh noes, it’s SLIGHTLY different! Just like XP was SLIGHTLY different to 98SE. If you can't figure out how to change the VIEW settings to make explorer look and act more like XP (which I can do in seconds) you shouldn't be working in IT.
If you can’t figure out how to turn off UAC (many mannerisms of which were carried over directly from XP SP2) system wide in 2 seconds with a simple Google search, you shouldn't be working in IT.
If you think that 1 gig of system RAM is enough for running any application, on any hardware, in any OS, you need to pull your head out of the 90's, and stop working in IT.
A: I haven’t had less than 2 gigs of RAM in any of my personal systems for the last 6 years.
B: RAM is so cheap right now, your "IT Professional" salary should be more then able to cover the $50 (high end) for another gig of RAM.
Every single problem you described in your post is a direct result of bad drivers. Or a result of software that is not written properly for the Vista environment. Both of which are caused by THIRD PARTIES, who are too lazy to properly write their software, and would instead take the time to blame MS, because its much easier then actually working, and fixing the problems with their software.
Speaking of working...if you actually worked as an IT professional, as you claim, you would know all of this. But its painfully obvious that you don't. And that you’re not even close to a power user. Or even an advanced user. Thanks for giving the rest of us in the IT community a bad name by spouting off with your worthless gibberish.
P.S. – I'm Vista early adopter, Power User, Gamer, IT professional, running systems with both Vitsta64 and Vista32, with no problems not directly related to third party drivers or software. The only direct Vista issue I had was a networking problem with Internet Cconnection Ssharing. That problem was documented, had a patch available, and was corrected with SP1. I’ve installed Vista on over a dozen systems this year alone, from brand new, to upgraded 3-4 year old systems, all run without a hitch. It’s amazing how well things work when you know what you’re doing.
I don't know where to start. First, as a software developer, I appreciate the detail MS puts into their products. It is simply amazing. Every event you do has to have code to respond, and they give you several options to do every task. Second, the US has been using MS products for over a decade. If you are unable to do a simple operating system install, then maybe you shouldn't be using computers. Not only does MS give you several options, they are now developing their software to use less energy. I agree their business practices my not be the most ethical, but from a business standpoint, they are better at that then anything.
I'm not a MS hatred... I ALWAYS used Windows from 3.11 through XP and always ealry adopter.. with all Beta versions and so on.
But VISTA... the realease is the worst version I ever saw.. more flaws and unstable than any Beta of Windows ever before.
I bought a brand new laptop for my sister at Christmas and had to install it. As I said, I'm used and really professional with Windows since 15 years - but this task was just ridiculous!
After having had a CLEAN install plus the windows patches that were out so far.. I couldn't *rename* any folders anymore! Not possible! No solution at MS or the internet elsewhere... just could cure it by going back to the restorpoint before the updates and then knock out autoupdate.
Not to mention relocating the data folders from the user profile. It's finally built into the UI to do so... but OH BOY - you need 3-4 admission clicks per change to do so?!?!
This is nothing to compare with XP. No big company will be able to roll out this Vista over its lifetime. I suppose most companys will wait out the next version.
And for the record: in private I DO use a MacBook now since one and a half years. And guess what: it just WORKS - without any errors without any nagging confirmations without any nagging info balloons popping up every 3 seconds in the system tray.... and the responsiveness and user experience is WAY WAY beyond anything of my business laptop with XP (only 6 months old!).
So what exactly is your wonderful possbility to choose from all that different hardware if you have such a hassle using it??
Cheers,
Kerry.
I work for Geek Squad, and yeah, I'm aware of the 'stigma' towards us syndicated techs in the IT world, but I'm still an every day user of Vista, and I've seen some the most screwed up machines ever, and its always the same story.. And you know, most of the time its people who've got these POS Blue Light Special PCs (as we like to refer to them) which came with like.. 1GB or less of memory. Seriously, the problem with Vista is exactly like Brian said, more people than ever before have started using computers. And its only the people who've had a bad experience with them which you hear from. Microsoft knows Vista has some trouble on some PCs, but they also know that *most* of the users never have any problems at all.
OEMs make Windows bend over and take it, and they install and configure the hell out of it. When we get a system that is *really* screwed up we're like, do you back up your files? "Yes", then we can re-install a fresh copy of the operating system and it will run like a champ. Do away with all that crap like HP Adviser, or Empowering Technology, or the Sony and Toshiba suites which run countless EXTRA AND UNNECESSARY processes. Open up 'Programs and Features' some time in your control panel, maybe consider uninstalling most of it.
Get more RAM, use Firefox, and stop using limewire to download pirated software which ALWAYS seems to have viruses. Turn off UAC (the cancel or allow, OMG! thing) [Control panel>User accounts>Turn off UAC]) and if all else fails, install a FACTORY copy of the OS.
(Which is why I will always recommend Gateway if anything for an OEM. You get 2 discs, 1 Vista Operating System Disc, 2. Drivers and applications installer DVD disc, which makes EVERYTHING optional (which only equates to like, 1.5GB of stuff). When you go HP or Toshiba, you get 3 DVDs choked full of an image of the hard drive the way those manufacturers want it. You don't even get an operating system disk you can boot from to potentially fix your computer! Seems like buying a Porsche but your not allowed to look under the hood)
As for Linux... well, its not *quite* ready for the average computer user. Most are afraid of a black and white text only screen and think thats all Linux is. The more popular distributions, like the Ubuntu series are great with the whole concept of running the OS from the CD to try it out, but people are always so afraid of it. And well, the problem with Linux as with Vista, new hardware seems to get slow support. I'm still waiting for a 64-Bit distribution which will boot my NF67 main board... that isn't Gentoo)
This is a boring, and flawed argument.
You say it's cost you $1000 NOT including the laptop etc to get back onto XP....You're using the wrong guy! And the fact that you aren't capable of booting XP from a CD, downloading and installing XP drivers from the Dell website, and configuring your email client etc tells me that perhaps you should be taking computer lessons before whining that things don't work. This story cries USER ERROR to me.
Vista works, get over it. OK, it's not without problems, and it's different to XP so you'll actually have to think for once, but it does work.
And as for the MS monopoly whining, jesus, get over it.....If other companies can't produce an OS than can outsell Windows then who's fault is that? Should Windows all of a sudden decide to stop trading to give the other guys a chance?
Next time you're watching the NFL or whatever it is you watch, think about whether the team at the top of the league should perhaps tone it down a little, fumble a few passes and let the smaller guys catch up a little...
It's about time that people like you came up with some original material.
Your article does not add to the discussion about Vista - its basically a "me too" post. You do nto odentify any of the specific problems you have with Vista - some of which can be likely attributed to drivers not associated with Miscrosoft, and considering you needed an "IT professional" to install XP some of the issues may even be user related.
Yeah the interface changed, and it takes a little getting used to. After spending a year with it, I am very comfortable with it and prefer some of the extra information the OS allows me to access. For instance the OS now allows me to access and edit metadata in an exlorer window - very nice small little addition. And let's not forget adding the search feature to the start panel - cant live without it and pine for it on my work XO machine (which crashes daily)
I have Vista installed on 3 machines. None of those machines came pre-installed with Vista and each one runs like a champ - even the machine that my 4 year old uses and abuses.
I guess the main point is people are going to have different experiences with their computers - that's the beauty of a PC you can customize your experience; its very democratic.
Vista runs just fine on a PC configured to actually run it. A dual-core CPU and two Gigs of RAM is about minimal. The OS also needs at least 100 gigs of HD space. A quad-core CPU with 4 gigs of RAM and a 256M video card is recommended for really getting things running right. That $499 PC with a monitor included and no video card may not have enough oomph for the job.
@BobWood:
"It’s amazing how well things work when you know what you’re doing."
Yes, that's a universal truth!
Only thing is: 90% of windows users are NORMAL people with few/midrange computing skills.
They have no idea where an error comes from and IHMO.. they shouldn't need to know! If the things they want to do are not working it's of no interest whose fault this is!
That's what makes Apple so smooth: they won't let 3rd parties mess up their systems and therefore it's much easier to have a system stable and optimized. And that's all I want....
You say it's all the fault of 3rd parties and their drivers... well.. I don't care! It's not working!
Whilst I partly respect your opinions, I agree with others who say that this argument is somewhat below you. You seem to consider yourself something of an IT expert and yet PAID an IT guy to remove Vista and put XP onto your machine?
This is an extremely simple task and takes about an hour (at most). Many people here seem to expect an Uninstall button for Vista, but this is nonsense.
It really doesnt take much to put the XP disc in, Format the HD and then install XP onto the (now empty) hard disk.
Some people don't have problems with Vista. Some people didn't with Windows ME, too (my father being one). It proves nothing and is indicative of nothing. The fact it may be hardware is also not an excuse. XP runs on the same hardware just fine. Microsoft has chosen to support as much hardware as they can and chosen to break compatibility with XP to some extent. These are the consequences of their choices. In fact, Linux made the same choice to compete and have similar (but different) problems.
In fact, any excuse you like is pretty much irrelevant. Bottom line: Microsoft, a company which sells software, has failed to make their flagship product compelling. User interface, hardware, advertising... It doesn't matter why. Microsoft is responsible for all of it. They made their collective beds themselves.
That said, Microsoft is not a monopoly. Anyone who sticks with them does so out of their own choice and, like Microsoft, they must accept the consequences of their actions.
As much as Microsoft may suck, Vista is one of the Operating systems where Microsoft has shown us what they are capable of. They integrated many new ideas and finally let the users "grow up", by giving us less of a kiddie system. Most of the issues with Vista are driver related, and thus not MS' fault, and thus 95% of the arguments out there are INVALID.
Great article, I'd be interested to know how many of the above pro-vista/rtfm comments originating IP addresses trace back to redmond.
Everyone I know running vista hates the friggin thing.
I've got two laptops and three desktops, and I won't go near it.
If it weren't for linux's having slightly worse support for adobe products than Vista. There'd be no question as to my OS.
At work we've tested Vista pre-installed on top-line Sony and Dell Notebooks with both 4 Gigs of RAM (both about 4 months old and fully updated). Both are a pain in the ass compared to XP. Much slower, buggier and less user friendly that XP. And XP is not the brightest star in the sky of user friendliness.
As Balmer said: Vista is work in progress.
Vista is a don't buy
They all suck, not just vista, it just goes down to personal preference because all the alternatives are crap aswell.
I find it almost ironic that this site is titled 'The daily resource for Entrepreneurs', yet you're whining and bitching about one of the greatest Entrepreneurs of all time.
Are you just jealous? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you like to end up where Bill is?
Are you telling me that you'd hate yourself if you were Bill? Or would your morals prevent you from making billions of dollars, just on principal?
This is how your post reads to me...
Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo wah wah wah wah wah
"so much so that I had an IT professional strip off Vista and rebuild it using Windows XP."
Sums it all up.
"Think I went quiet because Service Pack 2.5678896040230456 solved all my problems? Think again. My machine has continued to hiccup, burp, and fart over the past two months—so much so that I had an IT professional strip off Vista and rebuild it using Windows XP"
"The whole thing has probably cost me a thousand dollars extra (not counting the cost of the laptop and the software), and at least a hundred hours of lost productivity"
These two paragraphs really do sum it up for me.
An IT Pro? To install XP?
$1000 to get XP on your laptop?
100 hours of lost productivity?
So let me get this straight, to get XP on your laptop it cost you $1000 in labour, it took over 4 days, and you had to use an 'IT Pro'
I smell BS
I've had my new computer (HP) with Windows Vista on it for nearly a year now. Nothing wrong with it. Runs Media Center great. I never turn it off (besides the occasional update and restart). I'm not a technical guru. The only people I've heard that talk down about Vista are the ignorant people who refuse to keep up with the times. If they had their say, we'd still be using film cameras, typing on typewriters, and using huge phones and TVs.
I wish you people would stop whining.
@Jon,
perfect comment. This Vista bashing is just mindless. People get a kick of moaning about Vista and saying how great XP was. They complain about hardware support. The complain about their old machines not being powerful enough to run Vista. The list goes on and on.
Hardware support isn't really Microsoft's problem. That's for 3 party vendors to deal with. When Crysis caused my nVidia drivers to "stop working" I didn't blame Vista, I blamed nVidia's half baked drivers and some poor coding from Crytek.
If you're trying to run Vista on age-old hardware, don't blame Microsoft. That's like expecting a CD player to play a DVD. Or asking a 386 to run Half Life 2. If you have an old computer, stick to XP. Otherwise, get new hardware.
Vista is a perfectly good operating system and it is getting better with time. It's not the evolutionary OS that Microsoft were expected to deliver, but it's good none-the-less.
If you don't like Vista, don't use it or buy it. Get Linux and then just sit back, content with own sense of self-satisfaction.
Just downgraded from MS Outlook 2007 to 2003, just way too slow. Vista OK on brand new hardware (pre-installed). 2 year old Acer laptop didn't have proper drivers for vista. Gave up eventually and re-installed Windows XP Pro SP2. Use both Windows Vista and Mac OS 10.5 Leopard everyday (new Intel MacBook 2.4Ghz Core Duo 2). Sweet :)
I have had vista for 2 months and no problems. Apart from my Belkin wireless card which didn't have vista support in the box it's been just like XP with different looks. Which "I" like. I run it on a Dell and still no problem. What you need is a decent computer (mine isn't fantastic has 2gb of ram). I can't understand why people expect vista to work on a computer that should be running XP. It's like saying XP is slow when running on a computer that should have 98. XP probably would run fast on my computer but you know what 98 might run even faster.
As for the post it was terrible. Did you even bother to explain why it was so bad?
(I don't work for Microsoft)
Love the "you're not technical" rational for Vista issues.
Lets see, BS in Computer Science, MS in Computer Science, ABD in PhD in Computer Science
Started programming in 1979, Spent the last 5 years teaching computers and programming.
Office has 5 machines - Powerbook G4 with os X 10.5, Server with Linux (ubuntu 6.06), Dell with ubuntu 64 bit 7.10, laptop with Ubuntu 7.10, and last - a dual core, 4G 250GB machine with Vista.
The only machine that consistently crashes, blue screens, hangs (fill in inappropriate behavior here) is the Vista box. And it is fully patched and configured.
The interface for the Vista/2007 software was designed by ADHD monkeys on acid. It is inconsistent and worthless (who puts a dropdown of sites visited in a file save dialog box?)
At the end of this semester - my last box running MS software dies, going to Linux - running XP in virtual box.
We have installed it on many machines here trying to deploy it to the students - fortunately the powers that be see how bad it sucks and have stopped the rollout, and these folks doing the technical work are serious Microsofties, and they admit it sucks.
Vista - alpha level software at best.
At least with Ubuntu or any Linux variant I know I can run stably for years.
My personal preference is for Macs, but I work with what I have. Oh and Macs are not OS X specific, I have them running Windows, Linux, BSD, and OS X - all at the same time.
Die Vista Die
No offence mate but if you are that technologically challenged that need to get a professional in to install XP then that might be part of the issue.
Ok, I personally have kept out of the Vista/XP discussion uptil now, but this thread was way too interesting to ignore.
The original article tells me that the guy doesn´t know what he is doing period. Why does he need a professional to do a vista deinstallation and an XP install? So any "professional" arguments from them are not worth the bits and bytes they are written with.
There is a comment somewhere that the "normal user" shouldn´t have to know what they are doing? Why not? Do you drive a car without being taught how to drive? are you allowed to practice as a lawyer with passing your exams?
Just because computers are widespread (MS had a lot to do with that aswell!) and cheap does not exempt from that fact you should learn how to use and configure the thing.
I am IT-Pro and use XP,2003,Vista and different Linux distros. I programme using windows XP and I was pissed as some of my programmes that use COM-Objects didn´t work under Vista. That is my fault as Microsoft announced in 2004 that the old COM-Objects wouldn´t be supported under Vista but I carried on using them. To make MS resposible for my shortcommings as a programmer would be completely wrong and that is bassically the case: programmers not adhering to MS guidelines. Yes, as all software does, Vista has bugs but to constantly bash MS is wrong.
Second, if you want to run an uptodate modern OS than stop trying to install it on outdate hardware!
Third, learn to use and configure your OS for you, seeing as when it comes out of the box it is configured for the average Joe, and not for you.
Geek freak...linking Firefox and more RAM was funny. Open 15 - 20 windows/tabs in Firefox and check your system resources. That a general problem and just a Vista one. As for the Linux being white writing and a black screen...no wonder you work for the geek squad. Try comedy sometime.
Fourth, just stop bitching at stuff and learn to live with it.
okay that was something. first off, i like everyones comments at least a little bit in one way or another, just please dont joke about me being a MS PR something or another.
just my normal observations as i read.
1. "Think I went quiet because Service Pack 2.5678896040230456 solved all my problems? Think again. My machine has continued to hiccup, burp, and fart over the past two months—so much so that I had an IT professional strip off Vista and rebuild it using Windows XP. Keeping my fingers crossed."
okay, i already cant take this guy seriously. with something swisschese-like as he saying vista is, he trying to make fun of version numbers. seriously, wouldnt more patches be better?!
and his PC belches & farts? freaking cool!
(at least he admits he needs to take his dell to an IT professional just to install windows)
2. "The whole thing has probably cost me a thousand dollars extra (not counting the cost of the laptop and the software), and at least a hundred hours of lost productivity. After my last post, suggesting that Steve Ballmer should worry more about building products that work than about buying Yahoo—he has redoubled his efforts to buy Yahoo."
shouldn't this be approximately 2 paragraphs? im struggling to figure out what Keith's laptop expenses have to do with Steve Ballmer trying to take over Yahoo. try asking Ballmer and yourself to adopt GNU/Linux systems and i could cut this rant a lot shorter.
3. "If my GE refrigerator shut down several times a day, causing melted ice cream to drip from the door and food to spoil, you can bet that I'd buy another brand next time around."
yeah i already know where you going with that, still i like the plane or car crash analogy better. i also like the one where the guy from the Army's Delta Force project was explaining why the Windows Blue screen of death might mean just that to troops deployed in the field.
4. "But in the world of computing, I'm kind of stuck, aren't I? I can go to Apple (too late now—I just bought Dell hardware), or I can just spend my time wiping up the melted ice cream and dirty water that Microsoft so reliably produces."
okay i never posted here before, but im gunna grind this into you. Dell sells Ubuntu Pre-Loaded. You could also get Free-DOS or almost anything you wanted, yes, including Windows XP. However, some of your earlier comments were right; Dell hardware sucks, but hey do what you want, it was hopefully cheap. (just not in the end)
5. "When the Justice Department was going after Microsoft a few years back, I was on Microsoft's side. It seemed to me then like a case of government out of control. Microsoft's fancy lawyers and slick PR hacks effectively made the point that they were at risk from competition from the likes of Google—so the government should lay off. But now I think that the Europeans have it right—Microsoft is a de facto monopoly."
i know where you got the government out of control idea, even in the 90s let alone today. how could you still take the side of what was already an obvious monoply. i was angry after they ripped off IBM, Apple, and then almost every company they could including IBM again.
however, i dont really recall google being brought up back then as much as it was about Netscape and maybe Opera. im starting to wonder more.
someone should really get after you about starting sentences with the word but. i have the same problem only with Capitalization of words. that and sometimes i start sentences with the word butt.
6. "There are simply not enough choices out there when it comes to day-to-day computing."
there are simply not enough ways to tell you how completely wrong you are.
at least you seem to have Heard of MACintosh... but seriously; try GNU, Linux, HERD, BSD, or ask SUN what they can sell you. i dont care, i just know you are mistaken. Personal Computers and the Internet are as close as mankind has come to true freedom and choice. Microsoft is among the exceptions in the industry as they want all the innovation, power and money for themselves.
7. "Let's be honest, there is nothing in Vista's pretty (and confusing) interface changes that we need. Certainly nothing worth $400. So let's start calling Microsoft what it is: A Monopoly."
here i finish you. i dont like simplified user interface, or overconfusing either. for me its KDE before GNOME over XFCE then OSX finally Vista but who really cares!? i sometimes miss the good old days of command line, but i know why they are gone (for a damn good reason but ill let everyone figure that out for themselves).
as for the UI changes, that is consistant throughout Windows, and hell, Computer history for that matter. just look at windows history, going from 3.11 to 95 changed almost everything. it was an even bigger change than now. if anything i compare an upgrade from XP to Vista about the same as moving from 2000 to XP.
i even built my mother a Vista machine a year ago. she still uses XP at work and was quite reluctant to switch. all i really had to do was show her Media Center in Home Premium, and she was hooked. Plus she wanted to save some money, and her OEM copy was about $140, much less than XP Media Center Edition (which was only pre-installed on a MS certified Media Center PC). i dont recall what version you used but at $400 i assume you mean Ultimate Edition. besides a lack of software for her 64-bit edition, my mom has had few if any problems, and been quited pleased.
of course, i could say the same thing about my Ubuntu Destop computer i been using since 2005, about the same time they stated mailing me free CD's at my request. i also just ordered a couple DVDs from them for $7 each. did i mention i get a full office suite? something thats not included with windows (or MAC) is it?
Seriously, if it did take you this long to figure out Microsoft is a monoply and that Windows sucks... while were on the subject, just so you know, i agree with you on that; Vista Sux! LMAO!
Since there have been so many articles that have tested Windows on Mac machines and shown the system actually runs faster on Macs, why oh why aren't you Microsoft lovers going for the best of both worlds?
As for the old myth of the "Apple Premium" that's just not sure and has been shown to be a myth in many cost comparisons.
And BTW - if Vista wasn't the culprit and wasn't such a mess, why would any computer company offer the old system on new computers to its customers? Once Leopard was out on the market, all Tiger software in machines and on the shelves were gone.
I have taken time out to concur with the first comment at the top of this page. If anything this shows that being the monoply company is not always the best because as mentioned earlier Microsoft do not have the ability to create software for specific hardware.
Wow.. Vista defenders. I didn't know they existed. Fanboys with Vista on their home-built rig that runs IE and a couple of games doesn't count for an example of what the REST of the world needs or wants. The overwhelming majority of the customers that I support took my advice and didn't get Vista. Those that bought it without asking me hate it and have had nothing but problems. There is no noticeable improvement in Vista. It has nags, a new ugly UI, and all the icons are in different places for no apparent reason. Most major corporations have tested it and found it lacking and banned Vista deployments. A few fanboys anecdotal evidence of how it works for them and how everyone else is a "whiner" doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of real-world examples of corporations with thousands of employees.
Have to agree with timhj. Really surprised at the over-the-top ranting pro-Vista comments considering that even many execs and salespeople at Microsoft are saying the same thing (class-action suit). Hell, even Bill Gates couldn't recommend Vista on a Gizmodo video becuase the issues were too obvious to FUD around with.
In the end, Vista gives you the opportunity to run the same programs you can run on XP at a hardware investment that's substantial and with enough substantive issues that it still can't be used for serious work.
For the folks who saw the need to spend the extra money on hardware to do the same things as before at essentially the same speed because of this bloated and poor excuse of an Operating System - justifying the purchase doesn't validate the OS.
A thousand dollars? To install XP??
I'm gonna be rich.
"...the other 5% of people who have had legit issues,..."
You're either a MS employee, delusional, or both.
Way more that 5% are having/have had trouble with Vista.
Surf the net.
A quick note for Mike. You are wrong about washing machines at least - they have a microprocessor and many thousands of lines of code. Just because the interface is simple does not mean the internal exectronics are.
The rest of your comments I neither commend nor disagree with.
I do agree with Incompetor - Keith should at least try Linux - I would suggest www.ubuntu.com
It's a free os - you can download it and try it on your machine running purely off the CD (this doesn't update anything on your hard disk so if you don't like it you are out the cost of a blank cd. If you do you can dual install, leaving your current win xp install unaffected. It's free.
Regards, Andrew
Seriously, if you need to get an IT professional to reinstall XP, you should not be reviewing/blogging/writing about OSes.
Vista worked 'really' well for me on a lenovo thinpad T61 (2 gig ram) though I had to downgrade to xp for other reasons.
OMG, this Windows 7 Sucks BIG TIME. You really must not use it, it has so many issues. Downgrade to Vista as that's so stable. MS just can't create anything good. Blah blah blah.
By a new PC that is capable of running a more advanced OS, and perhaps you'll learn to love it. As you did with XP over Win98. Win98 over Win95. Win95 over Win3.1 blah blah.
Even now with XP, you're getting SP3 to FIX the issues that everyone has. Nothing is perfect! Millions of lines of code will always contain problems that you may or may not be at the receiving end of.
Best thing to do - enjoy whatever it is you enjoy. And accept that other people enjoy other things.
Articles like this are useless - the guy is saying it didn't work for him. Big deal. Linux doesn't work for me. So what! And now I've wasted 2 minutes of my life. Back to bliss...
What re you talking about? You have plenty of choices. You can buy something besides a Dell. You can go back to XP. You can switch to Macintosh or Linux.
I think you bemoan the lack of choices out there because you really DON'T want to switch at all, so don't go looking for sympathy from any of us.
When we went to Innotech and reviewed Vista before it came out many of the issues people are dealing with were in fact brought up. It seems that MS believes that learning there software is like learning mathematics: that is just the way it is. Options for alternative are not great right now but in the next decade things will change dramatically. Unfortunately for MS it will most likely not be in there favor. I think the MS domination is coming to an end.
(btw claiming everyone on this board who supports MS works for MS was not to be taken literally; and is also not a straw man fallacy which is an argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.)
The types of complaints about Vista and XP are fundamentally different.
The success of each new MS OS have been very different and should not be compared too closely.
What is happening now with Vista seems unprecedented in its negative reaction. Everyone likes to complain about MS but with Vista, I believe, they have finally given people legitimate ammunition.
"I can go to Apple (too late now—I just bought Dell hardware), or I can just spend my time wiping up the melted ice cream and dirty water that Microsoft so reliably produces."
Install Linux. You'll love it. It's refreshingly good.
Amazing that these folks can defend Vista. I replaced a desktop running XP with 512MB with a Vista system with 3GB of memory and the XP system was faster. Nothing new in Vista is any use and frankly, while I see what they were aiming for, I think the new interface is clunky and ugly (no, I'm not a Mac zealot, but really the Mac interface is so much better). I've been in software for 20 years - and have been running Windows since it came out. On the other hand, I'm definitely a Unix/Linux guy - I've always worked using that OS. Why should a system that provides no significant new functionality need much more powerful hardware to run more slowly? And, an even better question, why would anyone defend it?
Vista/Windows is an OS for the computer manufacturing industry which is in no way user-driven.
OS X / Mac is an OS for people who want the machine to work. It's not perfect, by any means, but it's way less hassle than ANY version of Windows.
http://macintoshbasics.com/Macintosh_Basics.html
Vista way sucks, still. I have had it for 5 months and it still constantly pisses me off. I can make it work - I JUST DON'T WANT TOO.
The security features aren't secure, The interface is stupid because an idiot-child was given the task of making it smart. You don't ask eight-year-english-white-kids what they want and then ask a bunch of over-worked-well-meaning-and- talented-but-sadly-ill-equipped-Indo-Asian programmers to derive their own requirements from the answers and produce a product in four days.
If you do, guess what? You end up with total crap.
Not to mention the nine layers of unnecessary abstraction. The bloated registry of previous versions was bad enough, now we have to deal with the registry AND the GAC? Are you nuts Bill? UNIX/Linux has neither and seems to work just fine thanks.
Nothing to do with monopoly. Balmer is a goof and Gates is in dreamland. It is corporate decay, plain and simple.
The lunatics are in charge of the asylum because the doctors are all on prozac.
AMD needs to team with Linux because Intel has gone Disney. Can we work on this?
Let's call it AMDux.
Can I please, please, have my nerds back?
I own a computer shop in San Diego. I have over 800 clients. Not one will switch to Vista. I have stacks of Vista flavors collecting dust. What more can I say? Let the customer decide....oh, they already have!
I work with PCs all day everyday with the Geeksquad and I have to agree Vista still sucks. Probably always will. I doubt Microsoft's new effort will fair any better. I've started switching my PCs over to Ubuntu. It has been a bit of a learning curve, but had no problems installing on 2 of my 3 PCs. When I say no problems, I mean NO problems. That is to say I did not have to search for 1 driver. Everything worked from just the OS install CD. Microsoft cannot say that for any of their operating systems on any PC. I recommend trying Ubuntu.
All I have to say is, If you have to spend top dollar on a computer just to get even a reasonable amount of stability and still don't have a reliable machine - Why not go Apple®? I mean, that's the main complaint about Apple machines right? - The cost? The current Intel® models will run the Windoze OS as well as UNIX/LINUX/UBUNTU And the Mac OS. And YES, I am a Mac user after several grueling years of Windoze folly and can say - I WAS A FOOL, for not switching years ago. There's NOTHING (Worthwhile) I can't do on a Mac - I think most people who don't want to go to Apple are the hardcore gamers and music/video freaks who can't get a FREE (Illegal) fix because they can't find enough people to file share with.
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